The newspaper Yeni Yaşam carried out an interview with Cemil Bayik, co-chair of the KCK Executive Council. The interview was carried out by Nezahat Doğan. We publish the third part of the interview.
The first part of the interview can be read here and the second here.
After 26 years of total isolation on the prison island of Imrali, the historic call of February 27 by Abdullah Öcalan initiated a change and transformation in your movement, which has an impact on the people, the state system, and international political forces. Many people are discussing this and trying to understand this change, while some circles are deliberately trying to create a perception that suits their interests. How is this to be understood? Above all, how is the image that the state is trying to paint to be understood?
What is the perception that the state, or rather the government, is trying to create? They are trying to create a perception that they fought against the PKK and defeated it. They want to show it like they had no other option left than going this step. However, this does not resemble reality; the PKK has not been defeated. On the contrary, it is a movement that is developing and gaining international recognition. Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan has become, and is increasingly becoming, a great hope for democratic forces struggling against capitalist modernity around the world. What once started as a small group has now become a movement that impacts international developments. It has become a movement that has the strength to disrupt and impact the shape of the balance of power on the political stage. It is no longer possible to pursue any kind of politics without Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan, the Apoist Movement, or the Kurds, particularly the Kurdish women. It is very clear. Therefore, the perception that the government and its affiliated circles are trying to create has no meaning.
You keep mentioning that certain circles are constantly attacking the process—why is that?
Yes, there are certain circles that are sworn enemies of Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan who are responsible for this, and then again there are also nationalist and dogmatic real socialists, as well as those who profit from the continued war. They are attacking Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan and the paradigm that he has developed because he is exposing their true faces. Those circles live off their hostility toward Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan and the PKK, and now, through the process, this opportunity is slipping from their hands. That is why they are constantly attacking and trying to sabotage. They hope that we respond to their attacks, prolonging the war and thereby prolonging their way of life. We know exactly what they are. That is why they try to bring themselves into the position of interlocutors in the process.
Because he sees himself as responsible not only to the Kurdish people but also to the Turkish people and to all the peoples of Turkey and the Middle East, Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan is currently taking these steps. And he is doing so while facing the most inhumane conditions to work and live in. It has to be noted that no one today has to endure anything comparable, but for him the circumstances still are no reason to deviate even slightly from the path toward his goal. Even in the given conditions, he is doing everything to fulfill his responsibility to his people, his comrades, and humanity.
The current political discourse in Turkey is largely dominated by what is called “Turkey without terrorism”, while the issue of building the Democratic Society is largely left aside. What do you attribute the state’s policy or lack thereof in response to Abdullah Öcalan’s strategy at the negotiation table to?
The AKP-dominated government is trying to create the perception that everything that happens is according to a plan they have supposedly made. They are trying to create the perception in society and even internationally that it is they who are developing this process and that everything is running according to their wishes. They are trying to create the perception that Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan and the PKK are taking these steps because they want them to. However, the public must understand this very well. All the steps taken so far have been taken and developed by Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan on his own initiative. Our movement has supported and empowered the practical implementation of the steps developed by Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan on his own initiative. That is what has been done. Everything that has been done so far were unilateral steps based on our own initiative.
The perception that the Turkish state wants to create does not reflect the truth. Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan and our movement took these unilateral steps on our own initiative, and they have reached this point. These were all the steps that could be taken unilaterally. We fulfilled our duties and responsibilities towards the people. For this process to be taken any further now, the Turkish state and the government have to take concrete steps. They have not taken a single step so far. They have only created a slight relaxation in the system of isolation and are trying to present this as if they have lifted the isolation. It has to be stated clearly that the isolation continues unabated. Since the system of isolation is still continuing, new steps cannot be taken from our side. For new steps to be taken, Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan’s conditions must change and the Imrali system of isolation must end.
But rumor has it that Abdullah Öcalan will remain in Imrali for security reason…
Regarding his security circumstances, he can stay there. There is no problem with this.
You were talking about conditions that have to be met with regard to the situation in Imrali; what exactly is it in this regard that you are demanding?
There is a system in Imrali, a system of isolation; it must be abolished. That means that Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan’s physical freedom must be secured by law. Then again, for Turkey’s democratization and the resolution of the Kurdish issue, freedom laws must be enacted. Also, laws to enable Democratic Integration must be enacted. If steps are taken in this direction, then we can consider taking new steps. Without these, no one can ask us to take any further unilateral step. We have taken the steps we needed to take. Now it is time for the state to take responding steps.
You said that after these unilateral steps – the ceasefire, the congress with the decision to dissolve the PKK, the decision to set an end to the armed struggle, and finally the ceremony in which a group of 30 guerrilla fighters symbolically burned their weapons – no one should expect any more. Are you saying that this is now the final stage?
To set things clear, no one has told the Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan or us to dissolve the PKK and stop the armed struggle. We did not take these steps because somebody told us to do so. We took these steps by considering the situation in Turkey and developments in the Middle East. Again, because real socialism has been liquidated, we took these steps to fulfill our responsibility to the people. Our unilateral steps have been completed. Now, it is up to the government and the state to take action. We are waiting for that. The group set out and burned their weapons. After that, Erdoğan made a statement, which had some positive aspects.
What parts of his speech do you evaluate as positive?
In fact, he already gave a speech in 2009 that was quite similar to his speech now. But one could say that his new statement was kind of stronger.
You are referring to the speech in which he speaks about the case of people who were abducted and murdered (White Toros)?
Yes, White Toros, the burning and destruction of villages, the unsolved murders – he mentioned some of the things the state has done to society. However, one has to underline that it was not a speech that met expectations. Many are openly declaring this. Some see it as somewhat positive, but others say it was not the historic speech that was expected. There were some positive aspects, but there were also negative aspects, which are also being criticized.
What are the negative aspects?
For example, he was speaking about some form of an AKP-MHP-DEM alliance. He didn’t say “process”; he said that they will form an alliance and will develop it. Apart from the three mentioned parties, he has left everyone else out of it. What does someone who wants to advance the process have to do? To include everyone. But what did Erdoğan do? He basically excluded everyone. He excluded a crucial part of society. Can a solution be possible with such an approach? Someone whose goal is a solution wouldn’t do that. Then again, he spoke about a Kurdish-Turkish-Arab alliance.
An alliance with Arabs in the region, so basically a Middle East alliance?
It is well known that these peoples have a crucial impact on life in the Middle East, but it is not just these peoples; there are other peoples too. There are others in Turkey. There are others in the region. Solely focusing on the Kurdish, Turkish, and Arab peoples in the region and excluding others does not serve the solution. These are the essential negative aspects of this speech. This is reflected in the reaction to his speech. Criticism has begun to develop. Later, Erdoğan tried to correct this and said, “We will develop this process not only with us but with everyone.” This was somewhat positive.
Now, those who want to solve the Kurdish issue in Turkey name it. Until now, there has been no naming. There is the label “Turkey without Terrroism.” What does that mean? They see the PKK as a terrorist organization. They want to disarm and eliminate it. When they are evaluating it like this, they say that they are saving Turkey from trouble. But the issue is not the disarmament of the PKK; the issue to be solved is the Kurdish question. One has to ask why the PKK came to be in the first place and why the armed struggle had become necessary. The Turkish state’s policy is responsible. As a result of its policy, the PKK was organized and waged an armed struggle.
When President Erdoğan mentions [the prison of] Amed [tr. Diyarbakır], the White Toros, and the burning of villages, he is referring to the state’s violence and policy of annihilation.
Yes, he is admitting it. He said that they will solve the problem. Those who want to solve the problem name it. What is the problem? The problem is the Kurdish issue, and it needs to be solved. There has been no such statement on this from their side so far.
MHP Leader Devlet Bahçeli says that for this it is necessary to move toward peace and not allow the process to be disrupted…
That is good will…
Will this good will lead to the establishment and operation of a commission anytime soon? How do you understand the matter?
There already was a commission, but it did not carry out any work. At that time, Erdoğan was prime minister. The commission gathered information, but it did not play any other role. Now a new commission is being established. What will this commission do? If it is once again a commission that does not aim to resolve the Kurdish question, then its discourse will revolve solely around disarming the PKK. The laws it develops will relate only to this. However, this does not contribute to resolving the Kurdish question. The question cannot be resolved by eliminating the PKK. They say that they will establish a commission, but the CHP, which definitely has to participate in it, is being targeted. Arrests are being made. The CHP as a whole is facing repression. It has been brought to this point, which is very serious. If this does not end, then, as Özgür Özel said, they will postpone their participation in the commission. Then how will this commission be established? How will it function?
So, the way you evaluate it, is that it is President Erdoğan’s intention to prevent the DEM Party and democratic groups and parties from coming together? Why is the repression currently directed at the CHP?
We did everything that was within our responsibility towards the people; latest, we sent a group of 30 people burning the weapons. A commission needs to be established. Right on the eve of this, a new repression operation is being carried out against the CHP. It can’t work like this. If there were a true intention to solve anything, if there were a true intention to involve all strata of society in this process, this wouldn’t be done.
Source: ANF News
