In the third and final part of this in-depth interview, Xebat Andok, member of the KCK Executive Council, said that “the capitalist system is a male-dominated system, and all forms of power stem from there. The current domination of men over women is the source of all evil and all forms of authoritarianism. In this regard, it is essential that all our media outlets, all the work done by the free press, be women-centered, based on the findings of Jineolojî, always criticizing and rejecting male domination, and taking a position against it.”
The first part of the interview can be read here and the second here.
Many journalists from Turkey also attended the ceremony on July 11. There was great interest in conducting interviews and discussions. Will these talks be possible in the future?
Turkish journalists and intellectuals are at the top of the list of those we most want to discuss with. Even though we live together and should understand each other the most, problems arise when individuals spread wrong information. For the realization of the process we have defined as the ‘Peace and Democratic Society Process,’ which is essentially the democratization of Turkey, it is necessary to convey accurate information to the public. We would like to, but one needs to take the conditions into consideration. In other words, we need to see how things develop and wait for the right moment. Like I said, this is what we desire most. If the conditions are right, the doors for it will be open.
We have discussed the Turkish state media, the opposition media, and there would also be the international media, but we have set ourselves a time limit here, so I would like to conclude this section by asking for your opinion on the Kurdish press.
The free press has made great sacrifices. So, first of all, I respectfully express my greetings to all those who work in and for the free press. The free press has come this far as a crucial part of the Kurdish struggle for existence and freedom. It has a tradition of struggle spanning decades. Every comrade involved in this work is aware of what he/she is doing, striving to do their best to succeed. Countless martyrs gave their lives for it. It is a tradition of struggle.
Just as we are in a process of change and transformation in the Kurdish freedom struggle as a whole, this will also be directly reflected in the free press. This is a new process for us. As Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan has put it, we are in a process where the issue of existence has been resolved, even if it has not yet been fully guaranteed by law, where Kurds are no longer denied, where Kurds no longer deny themselves, and where Kurds have gradually secured their existence legally in the four parts of Kurdistan. The Kurds have become politically conscious. Our struggle up to now has been to resolve our existence issues. But now this is changing. The rhetoric of a struggle experiencing existence issues is different from the rhetoric that is required today. Therefore, the language of the free press has to adapt.
There was the armed struggle that we had adopted out of necessity. In the armed struggle, there were great acts of heroism, great resistance, and great attacks; these were covered by the free press. War produces its own rhetoric, and the press was developing it, expressing the reality, the truth. Even if it is not a choice, that is how it is. Now that the process has changed the circumstances, it goes beyond proving the existence; it has become a process of building a free life. And this requires a different rhetoric. It requires a different structure. It requires a complete restructuring in every aspect. In the past, the rhetoric of our press was more outward-looking. It was rhetoric that criticized the outside world, prioritized the injustices, inequalities, and attacks against the Kurds, and tried to convey the Kurdish people’s existence to the international arena, the region, and the peoples. It was more outward-looking in this sense. It was somewhat oppositional. These have not been completely overcome. Undoubtedly, there is still a need for sensitivity in exposing the current injustices against the Kurds and Kurdistan. But if we are in the process of building freedom—which is how we define the process we are in—then the rhetoric of the press must also be more inward-looking. What is meant is that it should be inward-looking and focused on our own community. It should be a rhetoric of construction. It should be a more constructive language. At this stage, the role of the press is entirely in the position of the first force. Perhaps up to now, our other organs of struggle have been more useful for propaganda. But now that we are going to build freedom, and since this construction requires a certain mindset, if the press is the medium that can reach the widest parts of society, then anyone who wants to reach society—whether through art or by producing something in any field of life and bringing it to society—has to use the means of communication. Therefore, the press occupies a decisive position in the construction of a democratic society and a free life. From that perspective, a free press cannot be expected. It must find itself as the most active actor in this process.
It must be capable of transferring answers to current questions like, what changes are taking place in Kurdistan? What kind of process have we entered? What is it that the Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan foresees? Because he determines the process, he determines the developments in the four parts of Kurdistan. What stage has the movement entered? That is the strategy that the free press has to discuss. What does the democratic political strategy require? What kind of change in rhetoric? Most importantly, we are talking about a paradigm shift. Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Öcalan defined the PKK as a practice of nation state socialism. He stated that he was convinced that the PKK’s current format and form of organization could not sufficiently bring about socialism and that change was therefore necessary. The free press based itself primarily on the accumulated experience of the Kurdish freedom movement. Therefore, if there is a change in the root organization, then serious changes will also be necessary in other organizational structures that refer to and base themselves on it. And these changes have to be made on the basis of the new paradigm. Yes, we are not talking about a paradigm that was newly developed now; we have been in the new paradigm period since 2003, but with the criticisms of our leader and what practice has actually shown us, there is a new paradigm period that we have not sufficiently entered. We need to ask ourselves, what are the organizational models envisioned by the new paradigm? For example, what kind of reorganization is needed for the free press so that it can meet its requirements? For example, how does decision-making work? How do discussion processes work? How does its internal life work? There needs to be answers for this in order to build a free life.
Now, there is something we want from the state; we want to make peace with the state. But a free life cannot be demanded from the state. The freer life is, the better, and it means the state stays as far away as possible. We just want it to stay out of our business, that’s all. We will build it ourselves. So, if a press whose duty is to raise awareness and educate society cannot organize this within itself, cannot live it itself, how much propaganda can it do?
Therefore, regarding practical steps, we must definitely move away from those expectant mentalities. Because this is contrary to the conditions of existence and the reasons for the existence of the press. In order for the press to be able to take steps to democratize society in this construction process, it must have these things within itself. Because ultimately, it will be doing propaganda. And if you don’t have this propaganda power, you can’t do it. For example, what is free life? What are free relationships? What does it mean to stay away from authoritarian, male-dominated, and statist approaches? What is communism? What is democracy? These are the things that need to be discovered and developed. This is what we have to put into practice in our own lives, and it is this implementation that allows us to enjoy life. This is what needs to be portrayed. What needs to be conveyed. We will not propagate something that we do not have within ourselves. Therefore, we will not try to give to society something that we have not built within ourselves so that society can build it. Because that will not work. Accordingly, entering the new paradigm also has to be a fundamental agenda for the free press.
Of course, Turkish society also has expectations, including of the free press, and meeting them is not always easy due to censorship and repression. Digital media can play a valuable role here. What are your thoughts on this? How do you think new media can be better integrated into this process?
The world and circumstances have changed significantly, but what still has top priority is having clarity about one’s own goals. For example, one must ask oneself the question: What are we aiming for as the press? I think everyone agrees that capitalist modernity has brought nothing but harm to humanity. Therefore, our stance must be against capitalist modernity. Regional rights, especially those of the Kurds, are suppressed by the statist system. Society must always be defended against the state. This is an existential necessity. It is a requirement that must be met by the free press.
Also, the capitalist system is a male-dominated system, and all forms of power stem from there. The current domination of men over women is the source of all evil and all forms of authoritarianism. In this regard, it is essential that all our media outlets, all the work done by the free press, be women-centered, based on the findings of Jineolojî, always criticizing and rejecting male domination, and taking a position against it. Opposing collaborative approaches that cause problems.
If the goal is clear, the second aspect required is functionality. In other words, you must develop whatever type of media outlets are necessary to achieve your goal. The era of digitalization is developing in line with this function, and it does so at a rapid pace. It is impossible to keep up; this also poses a great danger. In other words, the digital media sphere, or more precisely, the internet era, the so-called Industry 4.0 era, has actually given the powers that be more opportunity than ever to rule society. That is why some people call it “digital fascism,” a very accurate observation.
In the past, parents would raise their children with filtered information. That no longer exists. Now, children are bombarded with information that hasn’t been filtered, whose source is unclear, and which is so overwhelming and addictive that they can’t escape it. It enslaves them. It’s addiction. There is no thinking, no commentary, and no objection. Reason is gone. Such is the age we live in. Therefore, the free press must, of course, be strong in this area, but it must focus on functionality.
The rulers produce lies. They are more organized. They have created such an addiction that even though a person knows that it is wrong and that what they are addicted to is leading them to destruction, they continue to do it because of their addiction. There have been many studies on this. It is a huge industry, a huge money-making field. It is tremendous. It is an area that needs organization. In other words, we need to be organized. This is not something that can be achieved through organization in the press alone; social organization is also necessary. Therefore, awareness is needed. All of these addictions, all of these cover-ups of fake news, stem from a lack of awareness. Therefore, we need to make our society and ourselves aware of what is happening. This requires organized work; for example, conducting special research on what is needed for young people and how we can use digital media for the benefit of our society, and working to organize ourselves on the basis of functionality. We are facing a difficult task there. Because this is an area where capitalist modernity, that is, the hegemonic powers, has organized itself in the most effective way.
We have talked a lot about the press and rhetoric; one question that is being asked from all sides is: How can peace be achieved?
It is well known that the goal of the Kurdish side is peace. Sure, certain changes and transformations are necessary on the Kurdish side. And making these changes is not very difficult. Because it is not a poisoned structure. Kurdish media bases itself on the Kurdish freedom struggle; it is not poisoned by nationalism. For example, it is open to internationalism, brotherhood among peoples, and gender equality. To generalize, it is completely open to democracy and has a structure that can adapt to it immediately. Because, despite all its shortcomings, this is its paradigm, and it is trying to put it into practice. Therefore, I do not think that the Kurdish press will have any problems at this point.
The mentioned poisoning is essentially present on the other side. That front needs to undergo serious, fundamental changes and transformations. There is not much of a journalistic approach that is independent, truly in pursuit of the truth, and doing everything in its power for the democratization of Turkey or for all the states where Kurds live together to become sensitive to democracy. They are solely focused on power. Therefore, the changes and transformations that the powers that be, those who run the state, will undergo, and the directives that these leaders will give them, have an impact. So the leaders are responsible for this situation. Of course, I don’t mean everyone. Undoubtedly, there are people on the Turkish side who are truly doing everything they can to democratize Turkey and who are facing difficulties and repression. They are now, to a certain extent, people who want Turkish-Kurdish brotherhood, or rather the brotherhood of peoples, and the democratization of Turkey, and who are fighting on this basis. Therefore, more work is needed on that front.
These things cannot be done without organization; they cannot be done solely with individual efforts. Even the strongest individual cannot do anything unless they organize themselves. Problems are social, and solutions must also be social. Therefore, the greatest shortcoming of intellectuals, writers, journalists, and all those striving for Turkey’s democratization—as far as I can tell—is that they have not yet organized themselves sufficiently. Achieving results requires organization.
One can take our leader as an example. He emerged as a single person. It is often stated that there was no basis to build on, but he managed to form an organization, to create comrades, and to gain regional and now international influence. Organization is the formula of success.
They are undoubtedly engaged in struggle themselves; they also theoretically understand that the democratization of all peoples living in Anatolia can only be achieved through organized struggle. If that is the case, then it is necessary to act according to the correct information. Within that framework, it is essential that all intellectuals, writers, journalists, academics, and everyone who stands for democracy in Turkey unite and stand up for the ‘Peace and Democratic Society Process.’ It won’t work without them.
Source: ANF News
